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Talk:Durova

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[edit] Looks like she is holding something back...as though she were a dam...or a dyke (c wat I did there?)

She joined the navy because her uncle survived 9/11? Nothing to do with all those women in sensible shoes that she will be forced to shower and stay in dorm rooms with regularly at all? Crakwhrrr 09:02, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

[edit] SUGGESTIONS: (In light of Durova case) Congressional Edit Case & Wikipedia Needs COI Warnings

Removed from the admins noticeboard by Crum375, JzG, and MONGO -- [1] [2] [3] [4]

Last summer Tim H., Press Officer for a TN Congressman, edited his boss's page, and the page of his brother. There were no stated rules that this was wrong, on the "Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit". This was caught by the wikiscanner. Durova called the press and was interviewed multiple times for this. Political opponents of the Congressman raked the press officer over the coals. He was forced to take a class on ethics in Washington, D.C. and this week, he left his job.

  • There were no warnings on Wikipedia to inform this person that making edits was against the rules if you have any relation to the person in question.
  • Durova went on to give interviews about the topic, to give it maximum press, so that the person involved seemed to have done something very, very wrong.
  • The Press Officer dealt with online information about his boss, the Congressman. This was his job.
  • The Press Officer erased pararaphs about his brother, who is a state representative.
  • Nowhere on Wikipedia was it mentioned HOW or WHO could edit, without raising huge criticism.
  • What was written on his brother (State Senator, TN) was clearly written by political opponents.
  • What was written made it appear as if receiving donations from a pharmaceutical company were illegal.
  • This is not illegal. Most politicians receive corporate donations.
  • What was erased created a distorted picture of the Press Officer's brother, a politician.
  • Should he have edited more skillfully? Sure. But how was he supposed to know you had rules?
  • Was it done with malice? No. But Durova talked about it in the press as if it were.
  • It was not stated anywhere on the Wikipedia page, where he edited as an IP, what to avoid, including COI.
  • COI is not clearly described anywhere on Wikipedia article pages.
  • There should be a warning on every page
  • Still, Durova used this in her SEO essay on "How to Ethically Edit Wikipedia"
  • It seems as if her main goal was to maximize press attention, no matter what the cost.
  • Another goal seemed to be to get her name in the press.

[edit] Three Recommendations:

[edit] COI Warnings must be put on all pages (IMPORTANT)

  • Wikipedia needs to institute COI warning pages on all articles, with links to information about "what COI is" in the Wikipedian context
  • Right now, Wikipedia, with Wikiscanner is a "honeypot" for unsuspecting people who edit, thinking they can.
  • Do you really want to be "The Encyclopedia that Anyone Can Edit and Ruin Their Lives Because of No Warnings?
  • If ruining lives isn't a big enough reason, this is a honeypot for an eventual court case, which someday, Wikipedia and/or involved editors and admins will lose.

[edit] Guard against Wikipedian vanity

  • Self-advertising behavior, such as Durova practiced needs to be guarded against
  • Wikipedia needs to stop writing articles about its own scandals (unless it sees fit to also write articles about Durova, etc). They ruin people's lives. Stop that.

[edit] Wikipedia does not exist to make people sad (Take Down Tim H's article, please)

  • If Tim H. is notable, it is due to the man interviews given out by Durova, after the fact.
  • Durova actively pursued press attention to this affair. And no one at Wikipedia thought ill of it.  :(
  • Take down articles about people that were caused by misunderstandings of Wikipedia, especially given that poor or no information is provided to the public.
  • The Press Officer of the Congressman has an article about himself. This is cruel. Take it down. Today.
  • Wikipedia is not the Center of Everyone's World. Therefore articles should not be written singularly to report Wikipedia in this light.

Thank you. 85.5.180.9 15:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

  • That's a long post and I'm not sure if it belongs here, but I completely agree that to have a "biography" of someone notable only for one unfortunate event, especially when said event is essentially self-referential, is a definite problem, and I have deleted the article. If someone can think of a better place to have an article on the congressional editing issue then I will give them the deleted content to see if there are any useful references; I'm not so convinced that was anything other than a storm in a teacup anyway. Politicians try to control their own public image? Wow! Who knew? Guy (Help!) 16:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Oh honestly Guy. Does everything have to be spelled out for you in large letters? It belongs here. She drove the press attention to that case, so it is very Durova-related. As for it being "one case" again, my comment about the large letters. Just because this is the first time you noticed it, or the first time someone called it to your attention, doesn't mean it is the first time it happened. It belongs here. Durova was very, very active in bringing press attention to editor mistakes about which they were ill informed. And keeping the focus on blaming the people involved[5] It should have been part of the examination of her case, which was gerrymandered, instead, to try to fry Mr. Giano for having exposed some dumb email. Please allow people to have respect for the processes here. It is getting more and more difficult. 85.5.180.9 16:22, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Durova could have explained to the press that "we don't yet have clear information or user-training about COI, so we understand that this man did this in good faith" rather than the N-AGF story she put out, likening it to earlier attempts Congressional staffers had made to edit opponents webpages. This man's CAREER, and his LIFE, were DESTROYED, because of the "no inform" policy on COI, accompanied by people, of which Durova is probably the most active, with an agenda to expose people who broke rules - rules about which the information is 100% not well represented. That's not Durova's fault, but the way she treated people who misstepped was. There is a reason why so many people came out of the woodwork against Durova. One case for Durova? No, sorry Guy. Just the first time you realized it. Durova was the first to shout AGF to other people, and the last to practice it.
  • Let this be the positive legacy to this sad affair (Durova case). That things that happened under her aegis should be made better. Not that things should be hidden, or run from, or what-have-you. This entire page was a missed opportunity to make the project better. In the 11th hour, make some recommendations which can change things for the better. And yes, these are very, very Durova related. 85.5.180.9 16:37, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Well, you say that, but I don't see that this has any place in the talk page for the proposed decision in respect of an arbitration case concerning a bad block. This is not the only venue for discussing problems. Guy (Help!) 17:34, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • If the Durova case, to you, Mr. JzG, is only about a bad block, I suspect you will be shocked at what happens at WP in the course of the next year or so. The Durova case, to me, is all about deceit, secrecy, and quite frankly, a lack of transparency. It exposed the very essence of what can and does go wrong when there are secret societies of power running things. The people, or the community eventually took back part of the control and Durova was quite rightly put in her place.

As you so often do, Mr. JzG, you may wish to block all of us for not having any mainspace edits, yet, however, that will not work forever. Cheers, and I am trying to be Nice 21:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Wikipedia is not a social network. The encyclopaedia is thataway →. Guy (Help!) 22:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree that this is a much better forum for this than an ArbCom case that has nothing to do with this nor any evidence presented that would change the ruling. I do think this is a lesson we can learn from, and things like this can and should be handled better in the future. I'm not sure what Nicespace wants to happen here though. By giving up her adminship, Durova's already given her pound of flesh. What remedy could you possibly want levied against her? AniMate 22:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

No comment on the rest of this stuff, but whether Durova-related or not, I endorse the deletion of Timothy Hill, a clear example of an article that shouldn't exist per the spirit of BLP. There's generally something wrong with an article when half the content is under a heading named "2007 Wikipedia political bio blanking controversy." --krimpet⟲ 22:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, no comment on the Durova case, but a brief COI warning is a good idea. COI edits have led to enough drama and problems for people. Take a look at MediaWiki_talk:Copyrightwarning#COI warning which is a proposed change to "Content that violates any copyright will be deleted. Encyclopedic content must be verifiable. You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL*." line that is beneath the edit box in editing mode. --Aude (talk) 23:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] kkeeerrist

the above section (and the whole article, imo) is way to focused on a stupid premise. that premise being that drama needs embellishment. my suggestion would be to take this article in one of two directions 1) cut back the crap and commentary to just the facts and observable extentions (it's plenty drama filled). or 2) cut the wikiparanoiafawning and go for full humor. this middle of the road thing blows. --Gardengnome 18:00, 6 December 2007 (CST)

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